Curse

Turtle222 · Dec 22, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

this is your meat and potatoes kind of build...its been approved before - for pve and pvp

Burst Cancel · Dec 22, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

The problem with applying PvP to PvE is an issue of context. You cannot assume that whatever is being run in one setting is relevant in another without considering all of the underlying rationale. An obvious example is Holy Veil - excellent in PvP for reasons that are strictly PvP.

When considering GoLE, you need to look at what kind of bar it is being used on, which skills it is powering, and, most importantly, why it's considered necessary. Monk bars are extremely tight already, so emgt skills (read: skills that serve no function of their own) come at potentially very high opportunity cost. If you don't absolutely need the emgt, you shouldn't be bringing it.

I've rarely used GoLE in either PvP or PvE, because almost none of the builds I run have ever needed it. Boonprots and Blights rarely used it, LoD didn't need it, and WoH doesn't need it. The builds that benefited heavily from it were ZB, SoD, etc. So, in considering the OP, given the current strength of WoH, I don't see any reason to run ZB + GoLE when you could just run a normal WoH bar.

serpentdragon · Dec 22, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Thanks for all the input everyone.

So is it safe to say I should be a hybrid monk instead of a solely protection monk?

Melody Cross · Dec 22, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by serpentdragon

Thanks for all the input everyone.

So is it safe to say I should be a hybrid monk instead of a solely protection monk?

That, again, depends on what you're running with. in my expierience, AI does not handle hybrid very well. They tend to waste prots spamming them like heals and run out of energy fast. Because of this, I tend to let them run healing monks and I take the prot slot. Old school heal/prot 2-monk backline. This gives me the best use of the AI, which lets me do my job better and--equally important--set prots where they're actually needed instead of wastefully spamming them.

In a human player 2-monk backline, on the other hand, hybrid is more efficient. Hybrid builds have a tendency to be more efficient in the hands of things with a brain. You know when to use your heal, when to use your prot. AI doesn't.

So to answer your question with a question: what do you usually backline with? If AI: run the tried and true pure heal/pure prot monk. If you play with lots of people: hybrid tends to be best suited for general situations.

Last but not least (by any means): where are you playing? tweeking your build for the areas you play in is just as important for monks (if not moreso) than for any other class. You don't want your necro rolling an MM build in a corpsless area; or a sword warrior relying on sever artery in an area with non-fleshy critters either. You probably don't want your prot monk rolling SoD in a hex-spam fest.

Use Guildwiki to find the answer to these questions if you want one that is accurate to your situation. look at the monsters in that area/mission/quest. Plan accordingly and your build will always be "the right one".

GGs

serpentdragon · Dec 23, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

That, again, depends on what you're running with. in my expierience, AI does not handle hybrid very well. They tend to waste prots spamming them like heals and run out of energy fast. Because of this, I tend to let them run healing monks and I take the prot slot. Old school heal/prot 2-monk backline. This gives me the best use of the AI, which lets me do my job better and--equally important--set prots where they're actually needed instead of wastefully spamming them.

In a human player 2-monk backline, on the other hand, hybrid is more efficient. Hybrid builds have a tendency to be more efficient in the hands of things with a brain. You know when to use your heal, when to use your prot. AI doesn't.

So to answer your question with a question: what do you usually backline with? If AI: run the tried and true pure heal/pure prot monk. If you play with lots of people: hybrid tends to be best suited for general situations.

Last but not least (by any means): where are you playing? tweeking your build for the areas you play in is just as important for monks (if not moreso) than for any other class. You don't want your necro rolling an MM build in a corpsless area; or a sword warrior relying on sever artery in an area with non-fleshy critters either. You probably don't want your prot monk rolling SoD in a hex-spam fest.

Use Guildwiki to find the answer to these questions if you want one that is accurate to your situation. look at the monsters in that area/mission/quest. Plan accordingly and your build will always be "the right one".

GGs

Throughout most of the game, I go with heroes and henchmen. Occasionally I party with humans, especially on hard missions, but that's about it

ender6 · Dec 26, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I hope everyone enjoyed their holidays.

I was meaning to post the following link before I left for the holidays but I couldn't find it at the time:

http://teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewto...=asc&star t=0

Tommy and some others from QQ offer their insight regarding GoLE, and a whole lot more. Certainly a worthy read.

PS: I didn't mean to stir up any turmoil with my poorly worded sentiments regarding GoLE. I throw it on my bar from time to time as well, it's just something I try and avoid nowadays.

Dalinia Rhayn · Dec 26, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

My favorite and most used build has been:

[card]Word of Healing[/card][card]Dwayna's Kiss[/card][card]Reversal of Fortune[/card][card]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/card][card]Protective Spirit[/card][card]Aegis[/card][card]Dismiss Condition[/card][card]Cure Hex[/card]

But lately I've found that I wasn't using GoLE all that much anymore, except in really tight situations, so I've started replacing it with either a rez on maps without shrines, or SoA. Still experimenting to see what skill works best for me in that slot.

So my opinion on GoLE: Its nice for a monk starting out, but once you get used to managing your energy properly, it becomes unnecessary.

Yichi · Dec 26, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

good bar. same one I run on my monk and all my monk heroes.

Div · Dec 26, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

I take SoA instead of dwayna's kiss for all purpose monking, but kiss in slavers or jungle with lots of touchies. Just a matter of preference. GoLE is nice in situations where you need the extra energy, but it's also one of the nice optional skills that you can replace with other stuff.

You can't see me · Dec 26, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

[skill]holy veil[/skill] < [skill]cure hex[/skill]

Yichi · Dec 27, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

as for veil or cure hex, its situational. in some situations a veil will be more useful, in others cure hex will work better. its better to have an expel on an off character anyway.

Age · Dec 27, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalinia Rhayn

My favorite and most used build has been:

[card]Word of Healing[/card][card]Dwayna's Kiss[/card][card]Reversal of Fortune[/card][card]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/card][card]Protective Spirit[/card][card]Aegis[/card][card]Dismiss Condition[/card][card]Cure Hex[/card]

But lately I've found that I wasn't using GoLE all that much anymore, except in really tight situations, so I've started replacing it with either a rez on maps without shrines, or SoA. Still experimenting to see what skill works best for me in that slot.

So my opinion on GoLE: Its nice for a monk starting out, but once you get used to managing your energy properly, it becomes unnecessary.

Yeah nice bar and if you really want you could put maybe infuse instead of GoLE or have remove hex along with holy veil.

Yichi · Dec 27, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Yeah nice bar and if you really want you could put maybe infuse instead of GoLE or have remove hex along with holy veil.

you dont need infuse on that bar, and why would you ever take remove hex over cure hex?

Div · Dec 27, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

you dont need infuse on that bar, and why would you ever take remove hex over cure hex?

If I had infuse, I could've saved you from the wardenspike though!

Actually, no I couldn't have, because I'm bad at the game :P

Yichi · Dec 27, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

If I had infuse, I could've saved you from the wardenspike though!

Actually, no I couldn't have, because I'm bad at the game :P

hey that ele boss hit with an ob flame for 540hp

wth why didnt u pre-prot spirit me. u owe me a cookie.

Age · Dec 27, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

you dont need infuse on that bar, and why would you ever take remove hex over cure hex?

I would probably use a stance but you are right although might be of use just in case.I said remove in case anyone doesn't have EoTN.What would you replace GoLE with if you don't need it and with Aegis you never really needed it?I have never had energy problem on my my Mo/W running Aegis even at 15e with some other 10e protects.

«Ripskin · Dec 28, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

GoLE is overrated. Nevertheless for a novice monk it can be a godsend.

Or even for pro monks.

Age · Dec 28, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by serpentdragon

Throughout most of the game, I go with heroes and henchmen. Occasionally I party with humans, especially on hard missions, but that's about it

I am starting to use smiting more with my heros and hench only.It is the best way to call target.

Melody Cross · Dec 28, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

why would you ever take remove hex over cure hex?

I am aware that the question was intended to be rhetorical, but its gotten me thinking. Why WOULD you want to take Remove over Cure on a hybrid build?

Cure gives you a powerful bonus heal and procs on your Heal Prayers weapon set. Remove has an all the time low recycle that procs only with HSR staffs. On a prot bar, Remove is obviously the better choice in PvE, since you'll have the staff handy and using it regularly. But on a healing build, Cure hex seems superior across the board.

But its strength can also be a weakness.

PowerBlock in HM is a serious pain for healing monks because so much of their skill bar (including Cure) can be shutdown with one elite interrupt (and so much of their skills are easy for AI to interrupt). I've seen party wipes because of a badly timed PBlock. but by taking remove in areas where you know PBlock will be rampant or encased in dangerous mobs, you can counter much of its effectivness.

Remove gives you diversity within your skills. If Rhex is PBlocked, you can still heal or prot. if a prot is PBlocked, you can still heal. if a heal is PBlocked, you can still prot.

So there actually is a good reason to take Remove Hex over Cure hex in certain areas, leading back to my second post here: build for the area, not because its meta. Thanks Yichi. You made me think about my bar a little more

GGs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I am starting to use smiting more with my heros and hench only.It is the best way to call target.

If you have respectable rank in the title track, use Ursan instead (and if you don't, get it FAST!). it makes vanquishing H/H a cakewalk. but its a lot more fun to play with friends and backline for them

ender6 · Dec 30, 2007, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

GoLE is overrated. Nevertheless for a novice monk it can be a godsend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by «Ripskin

Or even for pro monks.

Yeah I am pretty sure this comment has been addressed enough -- though I think you would be hard pressed to find a pro monk that would call GoLE a godsend. Certainly can be advantageous espcially when hard pressed, chaining Aegis, and spamming Prot Spirit. Nevertheless most pro monks are more efficeient and therefore wouldn't claim GoLE to be a godend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

[skill]holy veil[/skill] < [skill]cure hex[/skill]

Those skills and their value are dictated on a per circumastance basis.

You can't preveil with cure hex, and you don't get the health bonus with holy veil -- both have their pros and cons.